Curse

Acheus Lokine · Jul 13, 2005, 03:29 PM // 15:29

Argh! I'm sitting in Elona Reach and my group is waiting for an AFK to come back so we can start the mission. Another group's leader (I'm assuming) calls out "hey you stupid monks, join my group!!1" Well, being the sane player I am, I tell him that he'll never get a monk that way. Another person says something to the effect of "Well so what, monks are snobs anyway!" At that point I just go off. The AFK comes back and we start the mission.

I'm sick of people treating monks like crap. Everyone knows monks are a valuable part of any team, yet so many people treat us like we're henchies! People get mad when we don't heal them, then they die and start pinging their 0 health or screaming "REZ ME REZ ME REZ ME!" All the while the monk is running from a mob of monsters pinging "My energy is 1 of 30."

The second I enter a mission area on my monk I'll get spammed with group invites, and half the time I'm not even there to do the mission! This is another huge problem people need to get rid of. Stop spamming monks with invites! If they say "LFG" then you can invite them all you want, but until then, just wait or take Alesia if you're really impatient. There aren't many monks who will join your group if you just invite them out of the blue. Plus, if you just spam invite monks, you're not necessarily going to get a healer! Maybe that monk you just invited is a protector or even a smiter; and of course you'll complain if that's the case once you get into the mission with them.

So a message to group leaders and group members everywhere: Listen to your monks. Maybe they can't do a lot of damage, but they can keep you alive when you let them. If a monk pings their energy in battle, don't complain when you die. If a monk pings their energy out of battle, wait where you are until they say it's ok to go. When you run off and aggro another mob and the monk isn't ready, don't complain when you die. And to the lamenting monks out there with me: If a group is treating you poorly, leave. Let them heal themselves.
[/rant]

Aniewiel · Jul 13, 2005, 03:32 PM // 15:32

Amen. I have noticed that, the higher my monk goes in the game, the more spam invites and abuse she takes. *sighs* But this is a well-known, well-documented problem with no visible solution in sight.

Storm Singer · Jul 13, 2005, 03:38 PM // 15:38

My name is Storm Singer and I approve this message

Quote:

And to the lamenting monks out there with me: If a group is treating you poorly, leave. Let them heal themselves.

The exact advice I've given to a guildie recently having the same kinds of troubles.

Malchiel · Jul 13, 2005, 03:38 PM // 15:38

heh, well many monks are snobs. What am I to say. If you aren't one, good.

And personally you don't need monk for PvE. Really Lina and Mhenlo are probably better at doing their job than your everage monk. As a matter of fact I always think that they do excellent job at healing.

Malchiel · Jul 13, 2005, 03:48 PM // 15:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by Storm Singer

My name is Storm Singer and I approve this message

The exact advice I've given to a guildie recently having the same kinds of troubles.

This is why, don't take monk for PvE, seriously. Well except for UW/FoW. Too bad they don't have lvl 20 NPC healers in ToA, otherwise I'd probably prefer that to most monks standing around there too.

Get the henchies.

1) They do a better job than some unknown monk.
2) They will never leave your group.
3) They never whine or bitch
4) They're smarter than most monks
5) They don't have an attitude problem
6) They don't go afk
7) And so on...

Have you hugged brother mhenlo today?

I can't tell you the number of times a monk left a group.
I can't tell you the number of times the monk can't actually heal/or protect.
I can't tell you the number of times I'm in a group with a useless (stupid

) monk.
I can't tell you the number of times monks started to sound snobbish, and go about bossing everyone. *snicker*

Oh that being said. "hey you stupid monks, join my group!!1" <-- calling anyone stupid is unlikely to get them in your group. And psshtt it's not exclusive to just monks ;p

theclam · Jul 13, 2005, 03:48 PM // 15:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by Malchiel

heh, well many monks are snobs. What am I to say. If you aren't one, good.

And personally you don't need monk for PvE. Really Lina and Mhenlo are probably better at doing their job than your everage monk. As a matter of fact I always think that they do excellent job at healing.

Until your group makes a bad pull or needs Rebirth. I have beaten Glint with them instead of Monks, but I still feel a lot more comfortable with a real player as my Monk.

Also, I haven't got much grief at all. Have you ever considered that the people who are yelling at you are right?

Aniewiel · Jul 13, 2005, 03:52 PM // 15:52

*feels unloved and unwanted* Not ALL monk players are morons, n00bs, selfish or stupid. Like any class, there are good and bad. Let's just not make generalizations.

PS---Personally on a difficult mission where henchies -are- available, I'd rather see Alesia or Lina brought along to give me a hand with healing. It makes ME a better healer if all the pressure isn't on my shoulders alone.

Principa Discordia · Jul 13, 2005, 04:00 PM // 16:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by Malchiel

Get the henchies.

1) They do a better job than some unknown monk.
2) They will never leave your group.
3) They never whine or bitch.
4) They're smarter than most monks.
5) They don't have an attitude problem.
6) They don't go AFK.
7) And so on...

Holy Sweeping Generalisation, Batman!™ No offense, but this section of your post is completely invalid, if not complete flamebait.

Diomedes · Jul 13, 2005, 04:07 PM // 16:07

Quote:

Holy Sweeping Generalisation, Batman!™ No offense, but this section of your post is completely invalid, if not complete flamebait.

<Diomedes invokes his namesake and charges headlong into battle rather unwisely>

Dear Mr Moderator,
While I respect and value both your posts and your role in this community, I'm afraid I must part ways with you with regards to the above post. What Malchiel mentioned was that the henchmen are computers and hence behave a certain way (i.e. they don't go afk). What Malchiel did not say was that all monks go afk. However to not acknowledge the fact that some people may go afk while a henchie never will would be... unrealistic? Just throwing in my $.02, I don't see Malchiel as talking about players so much as he is talking about the henchies.

-Diomedes

MuKen · Jul 13, 2005, 04:07 PM // 16:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by Principa Discordia

Holy Sweeping Generalisation, Batman!™ No offense, but this section of your post is completely invalid, if not complete flamebait.

Some of it is, but for the most part, he didn't say that real monks generally do these things. He just said that henchies don't (ever). Conversely real monks may or may not.

1) They do a better job than some unknown monk. - debatable
2) They will never leave your group. - truth
3) They never whine or bitch. - truth
4) They're smarter than most monks. - repeat of (1)
5) They don't have an attitude problem. - truth
6) They don't go AFK. - truth

The only generalization is to say they on average do better than random monks, which is arguable. The rest of it is truth: henchies don't do these things, real players might.

Dudededu · Jul 13, 2005, 04:17 PM // 16:17

Personally At first I always tried to get a full non-NPC group for missions. But after the 2nd.. 3rd... times running through the game from Ascalon to Hells Precipice, I got tired of waiting and trying to get groups(waiting for one as a mesmer sucked the most out of all the classes Ive played).

Sometimes Id find a group that inevitably would wait about 45 minutes till they could get a non-NPC monk when a NPC one would suffice. Eventually I tired of this and my last few runs through the game Ive used nothing but NPCs. And it works just fine. Zone in... get NPC's... just hit the mission. If you die you usually have no one else to blame but yourself, so its easier to love your fellow man.

Still to me... a NPC will never measure up to a good non-NPC player

As for people blaming monks for wipe outs and deaths and such. In my experience a lot of people seem to think/act like monks have an endless supply of healing. They seem to ignore the fact that they can only heal so much damage in so much time. If the group is exceding that number... someone is going to die. Regardless of how good a monk is. They always want to think he either wasnt paying attention or is stupid. Sometimes a monk doesnt have the energy, or cant cast fast enough to keep up with the damage...

*btw I hate mhenlo*

Ultimate_Gaara · Jul 13, 2005, 04:19 PM // 16:19

Well i agree that people need to cut Monks some slack, and it doesnt hurt to take a henchmen everynow and again, and its annoying to see "hey you ****ing monks join my group NOW!1!!!"... However in my many experiences with groups monks can be a double edged sword, they can be nice and heal you to the best of their abilitys.. or they can be full of them selves and if one person says anything wrong they are out of there faster than.. oh lets say roadrunner

I also feel that if people in the game want to receive respect, they should give it as well... what can i say i like being in the group that sounds like "Great job monk, your healing is amazing" "Thanks your doing a great job too".. now i know it sounds a little WB, but its much better than most of the teams ive been with who sound like "omg mage is dead again, stupid monk, HEAL" "Get better armor you noob" "stfu" *Generic Monk Player has left the game*

to wrap it all up i agree with being nice to monks, if they agree to be nice to everyone else aswell (then again i never really say anything duing missions except "man i love the taste of soil" when i die and thank the monks after a rez)

Malchiel · Jul 13, 2005, 04:19 PM // 16:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dudededu

Still to me... a NPC will never measure up to a good non-NPC player

True this. But if finding a monk is hard enough, why even bother finding a good one, when the mediocre NPC, will suffice, given careful planning on part of your team?

Especially going throught the mission more than once, you should know all the tricks to beat them.

Storm Singer · Jul 13, 2005, 04:21 PM // 16:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by Malchiel

This is why, don't take monk for PvE, seriously. Well except for UW/FoW. Too bad they don't have lvl 20 NPC healers in ToA, otherwise I'd probably prefer that to most monks standing around there too.

Get the henchies.

1) They do a better job than some unknown monk.
2) They will never leave your group.
3) They never whine or bitch
4) They're smarter than most monks
5) They don't have an attitude problem
6) They don't go afk
7) And so on...

Perhaps you should read what the original poster said. He's complaining about how monks are treated. You know... the way they are left to die when the chest pounding monkeys... err... warriors run as far ahead of the group as possible and then completely flip when he dies. "OGM!! YOU N00B!! YOU DIDN'T HEAL MI!" This is the kind of crap monks deal with every day and you wonder why we appear "snobbish".

Of course I would give the same advice to a guild member who was running into these kinds of troubles. If the party can't make it possible for a monk to do their job then screw em... Go find another party that will. Perhaps that is why you have such a hard time getting good monks.

Dudededu · Jul 13, 2005, 04:26 PM // 16:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by Malchiel

True this. But if finding a monk is hard enough, why even bother finding a good one, when the mediocre NPC, will suffice, given careful planning on part of your team?

Especially going throught the mission more than once, you should know all the tricks to beat them.

Quite my point. Just put into better words. It all depends really on what your willing to work with(or wait for).

Ollj · Jul 13, 2005, 04:36 PM // 16:36

but too many monks make themself heal bots, wich is worse than hencheman!
and yes, many monks are sobs.

Ultimate_Gaara · Jul 13, 2005, 04:38 PM // 16:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by Storm Singer

Perhaps you should read what the original poster said. He's complaining about how monks are treated. You know... the way they are left to die when the chest pounding monkeys... err... warriors run as far ahead of the group as possible and then completely flip when he dies. "OGM!! YOU N00B!! YOU DIDN'T HEAL MI!" This is the kind of crap monks deal with every day and you wonder why we appear "snobbish".

Well i agree that ive played with some stupid warriors myself and when they run they should be left to fight alone, but not all warriors are that way just like not all monks are jerks.. i just find it odd how many people stand up for monks and its hard to find someone willing to stand up for how underated Necros and Mesmers are (and dont even tell me thats not an issue because i saw people telling necros they cant find a group because they suck all the time at the ring of fire) or how sometimes, im not staying always, warriors are treated like punching bags and everyone always blames the mob rushes on warriors.. anyways i dont want to rant so ill get back to the whole monk thing

It kind of seems like an evergoing loop, monks are "snobbish" because of people treating them so bad, but people treat them so bad because they think they are so "snobbish".. people need to stop throwing so much criticism around and be nice to everyone in the party because i highly doubt the bad guys are sitting there "Come on monk heal, HEAL!"... so why should we?

but thats just my 2 canadian cents.. which means just about nothing anywhere else

Zoe the Zeer · Jul 13, 2005, 04:42 PM // 16:42

Ignorance is bliss.

kleps · Jul 13, 2005, 04:45 PM // 16:45

most of the people criticizing monks are probably first time players anyways. they dont realize that most quests and missions are able to be done with henchies anyways.

i have a monk myself and i'll help anyone that seems like they need it. anyone that treats you like shit during a mission, ignore or leave them stranded. that'll change their tone real quick especially since there is a shortage of monks in the later missions.

noblepaladin · Jul 13, 2005, 05:07 PM // 17:07

People need to learn how to fight without depending so much on Monks. There are too many Warriors who are obsessed with dealing damage. They would stock up on adrenaline damage dealing skills and also get stuff like power attack etc and try to kill stuff as fast as possible without regard to how much healing they require. I find that something simple such as Severe Artery, Gash, and maybe Galrath slash is enough damage. Other skills should be used to keep the warrior alive, such as stances, protection spells, healing enchantments, etc. I find for the most part my warrior is never in the need for healing at all and I can usually spare some energy to cast a shielding hands or sheild of regeneration to help protect the monk or a caster. That five energy used on shielding hands can protect someone from over a hundred damage, much more than that +24 damage on a single attack. Killing one enemy quickly will not win you the game, surviving will.

Also, people underestimate hexes and conditions way too much. Most monks are focused on healing because that is what everybody demands of them. However, even as a simple Warrior/Monk, I equip a hex removal skill and find that missions become much easier. What people don't understand is that when some level 25 monsters casts Conjure Phatasm or some necro life draining hex, that character will be in need for some serious healing very soon. And often one enemy will inflict this hex on 2-4 of your party members before dying. That is 4 heal spells the monk must do and often the effects are not noticible until 4 people start dropping down to half life at the same time which makes healing them simultaneously very difficult. A simple 5 energy hex removal in this case ends up saving much more than 100 hp. This is also where people severely underestimate Mesmers. Even a Mesmer only running shatter hex is useful in maps that contain monsters that like to cast hex. One shatter hex will probably do more damage than a Warrior will do in 10 seconds AND it removes the hex and possibly the need to heal in the future.

I don't understand why people like to make their characters deal damage as fast as possible. It's actually slower to go through a mission because you must wait for monks to regain energy or end up dying the next battle. Having one preventative character changes things up a lot, because prevention is cheap and can be done in the non-critical moments. Healing is done at critical moments where party members are about to die.

It's so easy to make a preventative character too. Just zoom out and if you see a monsters targeting a teammate, cast shield hands or something similar (we got plenty of monk secondaries and any one of them can do that). If you see the purple thing on the health bar indicating a hex on an ally, remove it. Even if they get hexed again, don't worry. People forget that monsters take time to cast hexes and take energy to cast them too. At the bare minimum, you have prevented a monster from doing anything for a few seconds and usually your party is larger than the number of enemies you are fighting so it's to your advantage.